Put out the lights on the Age of Reason

[alexsarll]

"Freedom of speech has its limits when it concerns others...How would it feel if Jesus Christ was the one insulted instead?" - Randa Ahmed Essa, Egypt. Right. You're really not very familiar with the work of Monty Python, Lee & Herring or indeed modern European culture in general, are you Randa? Aside from a few ass-backwards argu(ment/er)s against evolution, we'd laugh or not, then carry on about our day. Try it, it's really quite liberating.
Oh, and Peter Mandelson - On The Fvcking List alongside Clinton, now. You're both contemptible Quislings and a disgrace to the tradition that made you. Kindly move to Iran, and just wait to see how they repay your solidarity when they get wind of your private life. Or, even better, why don't the whole accursed bunch of you move to 2003 UB313? So far as we can tell there's no cartoons, gays or Jews within millions of miles. You'll love it!
Newsnight led with all this last night, unsurprisingly enough. I was particularly surprised by quite how unconvincing Christian Voice's peon-in-chief Stephen Green is - how does a no-mark like that ever manage to rouse the rabble? The Hizb ut Tahrir spokesscum at least had a bit of a passion, though obviously every word he spewed was poison. "Freedom of expression is to be questioned." Bzzzzzt, wrong answer. "A society where we insult each other's mother, each other's religion - is that civilisation?" Yes. Yes. YES. Which, incidentally, is what your Mum tends to say when I'm around.
The Danish editor responsible for the original cartoons put it well - "I don't think they are asking for my respect, I think they are asking for my submission." While speaking for the Guardian, the eminently slappable Jonathan Freedland characterised the British approach as "pragmatic, careful". Yeah, just like Munich 1938, Jonathan.
Oh, and when it was pointed someone from the Sharia Council of Britain (a name to chill the blood if ever I heard one) that mediaeval Persia often depicted the Prophet, he pretty much said that they had only mistakenly believed themselves to be Muslims. Right, so one of the Muslim cultures which deserves a place in any list of great civilisations - and you're telling me by your standards they weren't actually Muslims? Really not doing yourself any favours here, mate.

Look, I'm sorry, you know I prefer to have a bit of variety in my posts, but right now I can't really muster much attention for anything else. I didn't go out last night, so there's nothing to talk about there, and even the novel I'm reading describes countries wasting their strength on foolish internal struggles while ignoring the ancient evil on their doorstep that threatens to destroy them all.
Heh - come to think of it, the few people who are paying attention to fighting that ancient evil dress all in black.

Comments

[beingjdc.livejournal.com]

Yes, to an extent this is a Sunni/Shia fight. Shias aren't so fussed about iconography (note not many riots in Iran this week).

[barrysarll.livejournal.com]

Newsnight listed Iran among the countries which had made official protests over the cartoons.

[beingjdc.livejournal.com]

Yeah, they're in a sulk about the content, but not as far as I know the fact of them being pictures of the prophet, and that's a government protest, not a popular outbreak of flag-burning. A lot of Shia iconography looks very medieval-christian actually. You'll like that.

[beingjdc.livejournal.com]

http://ahmet-aktas.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/imam.ali.jpg

[barrysarll.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah, they showed some of those - though to me it looks more Bollywood than maediaeval christian. Anyway, they said such things were available in Iran "in spite of official disapproval". So even if the public aren't quite such idiots there, the same can't be said for their rulers.

[pippaalice.livejournal.com]

*kicks all people*

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

http://himynameisjamie.livejournal.com/345568.html

You'd think if people could get it together for Batgirl they could do the same for Mohammed.

[barrysarll.livejournal.com]

If only Bruce Wayne had taken Mohammed under his wing, none of this mess need have happened. Although - does this mean we're due a new Mohammed who's a mute martial artist? Because that really won't helo matters.

[katstevens.livejournal.com]

That is terrifying.

[innerbrat]

You just said everything I thought. It's ridiculous. And they're WITHDRAWING AMBASSADORS WTF?

These had better be damn funny cartoons...

[barrysarll.livejournal.com]

Truth be told, they're mostly rubbish. (http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/698)

[innerbrat]

...

Those are crap.

Maybe we wouldn't have the fuss over something that was actually funny?

Please to note this is also my opinion on the whole Jerry Springer debacle.

[barrysarll.livejournal.com]

I quite enjoyed JStO! Not in the sense that I want to own the DVD and watch it over and over or anything like that, but nor did it bore me at any stage, and there's not very many musicals of which I can say that.
And I very much doubt that funnier cartoons would have saved anyone's neck on this one.

[innerbrat]

Really? I thought it was naff, and I like musicals. Huh.

[barrysarll.livejournal.com]

Then maybe it's a musical for people who don't much like musicals? Heavens know I've run aground on plenty of SF for people who don't much like SF over the years, so I can well conceive of equivalents in other genres.

[london-imp.livejournal.com]

Good to see Boris talking sense. "If you are a Muslim and your faith is strong and you believe in God and in your prophet then I don't think you should be remotely frightened of what some ludicrous infidel says or does about your religion or any depiction he produces."

[barrysarll.livejournal.com]

As ever, he's right on the money. Anyone whose faith is strong doesn't need protection; anyone whose faith is weak enough to need protection doesn't merit it.

[publicansdecoy.livejournal.com]

That is not the best/worst BBC comment. A couple I spotted yesterday:

"This has nothing to do with freedom of speech. It is about bigotry, intolerance and hatred. Why is this allowed but denial of the holocaust not permitted?"

Spot the contradiction there?

But my favourite was this one:

"Why do your papers insist on offending religion? If you look in the arab press you will see NOTHING to offend other religions."

-x-

[barrysarll.livejournal.com]

Yes - and Newsnight's sample cartoons of Jews from Arab papers were, of course, accurate reportage and not in the least offensive.

[darkmarcpi.livejournal.com]

And then there's The Protocols Of The Elders of Zion - a widely available bestseller in the Arab World...

[barrysarll.livejournal.com]

And even on offer at the Iranian government publisher's stall at one Munich book fair. Bet you no European publisher would be allowed to retail that in Germany.
(Whose laws on such matters, btw, I do consider to be a blunt instrument in need of serious overhaul)

[moleintheground.livejournal.com]

I just can't believe that there's any reaction to this from the west other than dismissiveness or fierce rebuttal. It's so phenomenally wrong, hateful and illogical it makes me feel violent. Anyone living in a secular society who demands that society be cowed into giving up its rights has no place in that society.

[barrysarll.livejournal.com]

Ah, but then people might think we were racists, or imperialists!

It's terrifying - like watching how a disease evolves by working out new ways to neutralise defences, but writ large. We spent centuries taking oppressive monotheism down, but now it's a found a way around most of our liberal antibodies.

[darkmarcpi.livejournal.com]

Sadly I suspect the whole episode has given the likes of AQ a huge recruiting boost, and significantly from those who previously considered themselves 'moderates'.

[barrysarll.livejournal.com]

But I also think it's doing a very good job of getting the waverers off the fence on the side of good. A lot more people are taking it personally, dropping the 'just a few extremists' excuse for avoiding engagement, realising the full scale of the threat.

[thermaland.livejournal.com]

But most of the response comes from Arab countries, and they are organising boycotts and threatening kidnappings etc... There is little choice but to react.

Unfortunately many politicians see themselves as trade salesmen for their countries, rather than thinking a bit more of the long-term.

[barrysarll.livejournal.com]

Well, yes, there's little choice but to react somehow - what's puzzling Ed and me is the reactions like Clinton's and Mandelson's!

[thermaland.livejournal.com]

Clinton = Baptist background. Mandelson... well Mandelson is Mandelson. This is what happens when European countries send the rejects of their national political life to the Commission. See also Kinnock, Cresson etc...

[darkmarcpi.livejournal.com]

I've got no problem with any repeated themes in your LJ. (The only downside is the fact that you're ultimately preaching to the converted).

But I did expect you to comment on the news that US police have invented some tracking device for use in car chases which they shoot from their car onto the suspect's motor.

Oh, and your Mandelson link seems to not be working.

[barrysarll.livejournal.com]

How odd, it's still showing fine for me. Anyone else having problems?

Didn't see the US police news, but I thought they'd had something along those lines for a while now.

And as regards preaching to the converted, it is irksome but I remain hopeful that I may get another BBC blog round-up mention. Or even better, one in the Guardian. That would rule.

[darkmarcpi.livejournal.com]

Oh, it's working now.

And anyway Peter - since was being "crude and juvenile" a bad thing? I expect he probably doesn't read Viz.

[barrysarll.livejournal.com]

Furthermore, he smells of poo.

[thermaland.livejournal.com]

I've noticed that LJ has become prominent in that in recent weeks.

I wonder how the hell they go about fishing for snippets among the millions of accounts.

[barrysarll.livejournal.com]

Though did you notice that for a while they always used to reference it as 'username at livejournal.com', as though LJ were some sort of central site? I can't help but wonder if the reformat of urls to a template more like blogspot et al was as much to dispel that image as to deal with these security issues they mentioned.

[darkmarcpi.livejournal.com]

How would you feel if Jesus Christ was the one insulted instead?

Has he not seen P1ss Christ either? Does anyone in the art world fancy coming up with an Islamic equivalent?

Anyway. You can insult Jesus all you like, see if I care. I'm Jewish a great big media-controlling Zionist.

[stealthmunchkin.livejournal.com]

Given the existence of http://divine-interventions.com I don't think Xians could possibly be offended by some cartoons in comparison...

[barrysarll.livejournal.com]

NB for anyone unfamiliar with that site - so, so Not Work Safe.