"Fury at Ken race slur"

[alexsarll]

I am getting very bored with how easily accusations of anti-semitism fly these days.

Mr Livingstone: What did you do before? Were you a German war criminal?
Finegold: No, I'm Jewish, I wasn't a German war criminal and I'm actually quite offended by that.

Well, yes. It is an insult. If it does not offend you, it's not really doing its job. It is offensive to describe anyone - including gentiles and Germans - as acting like a concentration camp guard. In this case, I'd say yes, it was probably disproportionately offensive. But while that may make Red Ken a bit of a moody tosser, it does not make him a racist.

edit: Oh b0ll0cks, Arthur Miller's dead. Not only a fine playwright, but a man whose success with Marilyn Monroe gave hope to millions.

Comments

[london-imp.livejournal.com]

Christ almighty, what an idiot. Was he blotto?

[barrysarll.livejournal.com]

One presumes so.

[darkmarcpi.livejournal.com]

I doubt it...the news doesn't make any reference to him being an alcoholic, merely that he's been battling "cancer, pneumonia and a heart condition".

[innerbrat]

I have no idea what's going on in that article. It... makes no sense.

[barrysarll.livejournal.com]

It's a drunk man's idea of 'funny', but it's not the talk of a man about to join Combat 18.

[angelv.livejournal.com]

Well, work for a paper that doesn't have a record of supporting fascism.

Hooray!

[barrysarll.livejournal.com]

Though as a fan of homophobic, pro-suicide bomb Muslim clerics, he is on thin ice there.

[wardytron.livejournal.com]

He's on the thinnest ice in the history of the universe, given that in this followup article he says "You can't expect to work for the Daily Mail group and have the rest of society treat you with respect as a useful member of society, because you are not", forgetting that he used to review restaurants for the Standard, and that his partner and the mother of his child worked there as well. He can DIE, as far as I'm concerned.

[wardytron.livejournal.com]

Ooh, sorry, HTML wrongness. Well your fatter handed readers will have less trouble locating the link, won't they.

[barrysarll.livejournal.com]

Well, he almost certainly can die, unless he's hidden his heart in a jar buried beneath Centre Point or something.

[wardytron.livejournal.com]

Oh, sooner than that, I'm sick of him. Although I believe one day travelcards were an innovation of the GLC when he was leader, so that was good, and those indicator boards showing you when the next tube is due. Christ knows how people managed before then. You could smoke on the tube, but you weren't allowed to know when the train was going to come. So I suppose what I'm saying is, I'd rather he wasn't Mayor anymore, rather than him actually being dead.

[stu-n.livejournal.com]

I'd say it's totally appropriate to be disproportionately offensive to somebody who works for the Sub-Standard.

[barrysarll.livejournal.com]

Um...we supply listings for their Metro Life section...

[stu-n.livejournal.com]

People are disproportionately offensive to you all the time!

[barrysarll.livejournal.com]

There's nothing disproportionate about it, I'm a right cvnt!

[marnameow.livejournal.com]

The newspaper itself is a travesty to trees, but that doesn't mean that its reporters deserve being offensive to.

(remembers that I met a *very* nice Standard reporter and had a good long rant about how nasty the paper was)

[barrysarll.livejournal.com]

I certainly wouldn't say they're all evil, but I think anyone who does reporting on the streets in a paparazzi-type capacity for a paper like that should probably expect the odd nasty comment.

[marnameow.livejournal.com]

But it's not like he was hanging about a private residence - it was a party at City Hall, or so the report says.

And sure, re. nasty comments, but you'd hope someone in the position of mayor of London would have better manners, or more sense. Mind, I'm going by the transcript you linked to in deciding who was being rude, and the reporter could have been even ruder to Livingstone just before it begins there, or something. In which case they're both big stinky gits.

[barrysarll.livejournal.com]

One of the things I value about Ken is that he is rude to people who annoy him. In a modern politician, that's refreshing.

And yes, it was a public place, but I can still understand getting annoyed with someone who has (from the transcript) already had at least one picture, and doesn't even have a particularly good question to ask.

[marnameow.livejournal.com]

Butbut, being honest about being annoyed by someone is fine. Being nasty to them is another thing, and something that I'd never encourage, even in politicians. Saying 'Go away. I don't like your newspaper and I don't wish to answer your questions.' would be fine, but he was outright rude and nasty, and I *don't* like rude people.

[thermaland.livejournal.com]

My new favourite hobby is refusing free copies of the Standard with a definitive "still too expensive!".

[darkmarcpi.livejournal.com]

It doesn't make him one but I wouldn't be at all surprised if he is.

[barrysarll.livejournal.com]

He's the sort of person who might say silly things in the course of his pro-Palestinianism, but I still think that should be distinguished from outright anti-semitism.

[darkmarcpi.livejournal.com]

Yeah, fair enough. The two aren't the same (though aren't always mutually exclusive, obv), but it's too subtle a difference for Evening Standard writers/readers to understand.

[oneofthose.livejournal.com]

He still gets my vote because he ends the conversation with:

"It's nothing to do with you because your paper is a load of scumbags and reactionary bigots. "

He was lucky he didn't push him down the stairs, really.

[barrysarll.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah, far be it from me to renounce a politician I support just for being a moody tosser!

[oneofthose.livejournal.com]

And a drunk, let's not forget that.

[barrysarll.livejournal.com]

Hell yeah! Hurrah for Ken!

[violentbec.livejournal.com]

you're such an anti-semite, barry.

[barrysarll.livejournal.com]

But I'm technically Jewish! And you must have noticed by now that I really don't do self-loathing...

[atommickbrane.livejournal.com]

I really shouldn't do as much self-loathing as I do, I'm sure people are queuing up to do it for me! Ha!

[barrysarll.livejournal.com]

Oh, said that and of whom? "He'd be his own worst worst enemy, if there weren't so many other people queueing up for the job."

[violentbec.livejournal.com]

i tease baz. i tease!

[apiphile.livejournal.com]

I am getting very bored with how easily accusations of anti-semitism fly these days.


So am I. Also by the assumption that everyone must automatically know that you (generic) are Jewish when making these statements.

[barrysarll.livejournal.com]

Quite. I infer from that transcript that Ken did not know the journalist was Jewish when he first insulted him.

[darkmarcpi.livejournal.com]

I'd laugh if Ken came out with that line of defence but the journalist in question was actually a stereotypical Chassidic jew or something.

[barrysarll.livejournal.com]

Yes, I may have to change my tune if it turns out he was the Standard's Stamford Hill correspondent.

[apiphile.livejournal.com]

Reading it, it sounds like Mister Livingstone was tired and annoyed and wanted to be left alone. Mister Finegold should go and pester Prince Harry if he wants an offensive reaction. "STOP TAKING MY FUCKING PHOTO!" *punch*.

[icecoldinalex.livejournal.com]

Not only a fine playwright, but a man whose success with Marilyn Monroe gave hope to millions.

the race for Angelina is on then, Baz!

[barrysarll.livejournal.com]

I don't think I'm being arrogant when I say we're both better looking than Arthur Miller!

[icecoldinalex.livejournal.com]

i believe it's being inscribed on his tombstone as we speak.

[ex-dumbgenius.livejournal.com]

You are the anti-jdc, and I claim my £5.

[barrysarll.livejournal.com]

I'm normally in closer accord with him than with most of my friendslist over stuff like this...